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Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

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December 21, 2006 10:07PM
Hello All,
My real name is Dan Clark. I am not the nasty, foul human that Dave van Voorhis makes me out to be over at DUSA or anywhere else. I have no axe to grind about Juniper Flats. I have never been there, nor do I ever intend to visit.

I am, however, an off-roader who rides legally and responsibly. I am a regular guy who enjoys off-roading with my family and friends, without bothering local residents. I am also an off-roader who is sick and tired of being lied about by all sorts of people with various agendae regarding off-road vehicles and their various uses. Dave is one of these people as evidenced by his posts at DUSA over the past year or more. Unfortunately, his accusations fit a very small percentage of people who happen to be aboard an OHV. Just as unfortunately, his accusations are meant to unfairly demonize the entire group for the actions of a few.

When I first visited DUSA, there were several people over there ignorantly spewing all sorts of concocted nonsense about off-roaders and their activities. I thoughtfully and respectfully defended those of us who recreate responsibly, since our detractors chose to lump us in the same group as people with whom we do not associate in any way. I tried to convince Dave and others that many of the people riding OHV's illegally in your neighborhood (which, by the way, I wouldn't like any more than you do) are local meth heads from Hesperia, who don't know any better, don't care, or both. A few are repeat offenders, who know they aren't going to be caught by anyone, because law enforcement is seriously lacking for all sorts of infractions that occur in the foothills.

I responded with my honest observation that it was a lack of existing law enforcement that allows this activity to continue in Juniper Flats and elsewhere. I posted observations from my own experience and that of others I know. I have no time for people who make life miserable for others, as long as those demanding reform are reasonable. Similarly, I also have no time for people who seek to curtail the liberty of American citizens to explore the backcountry where it is legal and appropriate. In return for this honest observation, I was almost immediately attacked by Dave and two other posters, who insisted that I was a horrible person for riding my green sticker OHV into Randsburg an average of three times per year. In addition, Dave visited the District 37 website, researched my full name and address, as well as my occupation, and re-posted it on the DesertUSA site, in an attempt to intimidate me into leaving the message board. I thought that to be a particularly mean and nasty response, so I responded in the best way I knew, to do the same to Dave.

Shortly thereafter, Dave accused me of being the likely person who firebombed the home of a friend of his near Randsburg, of being the person who set fire to a car outside of his property for retaliation for his anti-OHV activism, of being the person who likely set a wildfire in the area a few years ago with my motorcycle. He accused me of supporting illegal OHV use, which I repeatedly denounced. He went to the website of my motorcycle club, and shortly thereafter made numerous false accusations about the actions of my friends. He claimed that we staged on private land without permission, when he had no idea that the owners of the property were actually with us that weekend and vouched for any places where we exited public lands and ventured onto their private lands.

Dave has posted his opinions on how bad the sport of OHV use is for various reasons, and has implied that the OHV user group should be held responsible for the actions of private individuals who we don't even consider part of our group. I, on the other hand, have suggested that these people should be held responsible for their own individual choices and actions through more effective law enforcement and legal deterrence (such as increased penalties and the threat of criminal prosecution). That wasn't good enough for Dave. He went to the District 37 website and exposed personal information of other OHV use advocates there, in order to do the same to them that he attempted to do to me. He accused two of us of being paid lobbyists for District 37 coming to DUSA simply to discredit him and other environmentalists, when neither of us have been members of District 37 for decades.

As my reasoning exceeded Dave's ability to ridicule and demonize me, the intensity of his personal attacks on me increased dramatically. A number of threads at DUSA have been deleted by moderators due to his accusations that I am a child molester simply due to my volunteer activities with Boy Scouts, DFG kids activities, youth sports, with my own two sons. He's very quick to accuse others of heinous acts, but doesn't like it when he is accused of being anti-OHV in his activism. He accuses others of being "off their meds", but lashes out when his association with decidedly anti-OHV groups is exposed. He likes to casually throw around accusations of drug use and alcoholism about those with whom he doesn't agree, but when his own words regarding his past life here on DCHS forum are exposed, he can be quite vicious.
I have a lot of background in environmental issues and have much sweat equity in volunteer work in environmental restoration and improvement. I also have a long history as a responsible OHV user. I have seen both sides of the fence, and consider both sides of an issue before responding. Unfortunately, I cannot respond any longer at DUSA without Dave van Voorhis becoming hostile to nearly anything I post. I have offered the olive branch to Dave several times, only to receive more vicious and vile personal attacks. He appears not to be interested in solutions, only endless arguments and personal attacks. Dave is an expert at provoking angry reactions from those with whom he does not agree. Read DUSA for a while to get an idea of his incessant provocations.

On top of everything else, Dave has been caught posting lies about OHV users or about OHV use in general at DUSA by several of us. Not once, but several times. I don't consider any statement a lie unless it is 1)false information, and 2) known to the poster to be false. Dave is working overtime to mischaracterize OHV use to make it all seem illegal and unseemly to the casual observer and to an ignorant public, as if all OHV use was a societal evil that must be removed.

I do not believe the ordinances recently passed by Riverside and San Bernardino Counties to be effective, necessary, or valid tools to curb the illegal riding in your neighborhood. They ignore the simple fact that what was illegal before is still illegal, and what laws were not being enforced prior to the ordinances will not be enforced after the ordinances. They also conflict with state law, therefore rendering them unenforceable in a case where someone is willing to fight a citation. My position has always been that better and more effective law enforcement is the solution. But Dave doesn't really want a solution that everyone can live with, he only wants a solution that Dave likes. Additionally, he pretends to be someone he is not. He talks about supporting legal OHV use, yet enthusiastically supports any program that turns legal OHV use into illegal OHV use. How can you deal with someone who refuses to be honest about their positions?

I'm not happy about the fact that your foothill neighborhoods are host to illegal OHV activity. I am also not happy that meth labs seem to proliferate in areas surrounding Juniper Flats and other foothill areas, because the very same meth heads drive down to Johnson Valley in the dark of night and steal the OHV's belonging to the real OHV users in order to sell them for parts after a few joyrides in places such as yours. These meth heads exist from Morongo Valley all the way to Palmdale and beyond. We are told by Sheriff deputies that this is the case. Evidently, Dave took this to mean that I am denigrating his neighbors just as he denigrates my friends in the OHV community who recreate responsibly. I am not. I have no argument with law-abiding property owners who simply want to be left alone.

I personally don't engage in any behavior that riles private property owners, partly because they have often been the friends of OHV users across the desert. I realize that there are other people and groups who are attempting to use private property owners as a tool to end OHV use for their own reasons. I'm interested in countering those efforts for obvious reasons. I'm not happy that the argument between Dave and I has become so personal and vitriolic. I'm not normally that sort of person, but Dave seems to have a way of needling the worst out of people, especially OHV users. He claims to have no particular agenda other than to end illegal OHV use, but it's obvious that is not accurate. He had no apparent reason to begin attacking me, and I would most certainly never have attacked him, otherwise.

I would only suggest that Dave only wants to keep doing more of the same things that have been done in the past: if a problem exists, simply close more public lands to public access, and that might solve the problem. I think we've proven that does not solve the problem, after 95% of the public lands in California have been closed to legal OHV use. Insanity is doing things the same way they have always been done and expecting different results.

Perhaps a little education will go a long way. Perhaps better law enforcement is one method to better education. Perhaps problems can be solved in better ways than two people beating each other over the head on internet discussion boards.

Sorry, but I won't be visiting here often to drag out multiple discussions about what sort of a wonderful guy Dave is, or trying to convince anyone of my own attributes. I just don't have the time. I'm merely attempting to defend my actions after being accused by Dave of being a "rabid whacko off-road zealot". If you still believe him over me, I guess I understand that you know him and you have no idea who I am. To those who don't understand, there's no explanation possible. To those who do, none is necessary.

SubjectAuthorViewsPosted

Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 1205December 17, 2006 10:21AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 625December 17, 2006 06:48PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Rick 1367December 18, 2006 08:32PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 732December 19, 2006 09:48AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Rick 739December 19, 2006 11:07AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 682December 20, 2006 04:41PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 761December 22, 2006 02:04PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Kevin J 744December 21, 2006 08:32AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 690December 21, 2006 04:39PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 742December 21, 2006 01:35PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Rick 754December 21, 2006 07:18PM

They Don't Care If They Get Valley Fever?

Rick 807December 21, 2006 07:20PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 690December 21, 2006 10:07PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 706December 22, 2006 11:32AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Kevin J 752December 22, 2006 09:49PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 596December 22, 2006 09:28AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 723December 22, 2006 01:36PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 586December 22, 2006 06:55PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 654December 22, 2006 08:34PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 542December 22, 2006 09:19PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 649December 23, 2006 06:17AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 571December 23, 2006 09:43AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 725December 23, 2006 11:07AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 663December 23, 2006 11:11AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 714December 23, 2006 04:42PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 652December 23, 2006 09:25PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 683December 24, 2006 03:19PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 604December 23, 2006 09:45PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 648December 25, 2006 10:15AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 1627December 25, 2006 08:43PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 636December 26, 2006 01:32PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 720December 26, 2006 06:20AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 691December 26, 2006 08:03AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Wizard 673December 26, 2006 10:23AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 661December 26, 2006 04:22PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 717December 26, 2006 04:41PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 675December 26, 2006 06:11PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 835December 27, 2006 10:12AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 653December 27, 2006 11:33AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 637December 27, 2006 01:29PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 779December 28, 2006 10:25AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 724December 28, 2006 01:20PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 781December 28, 2006 01:25PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 716December 30, 2006 09:58AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 573December 29, 2006 05:51AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 754December 30, 2006 03:10PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 1086December 31, 2006 04:33PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 680December 31, 2006 03:42PM



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