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Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

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December 25, 2006 08:43PM
Where Dave gets the idea that I have ties to District 37 AMA or Corva, I have no idea. I am registered on the D-37 forum website just like he is, and just as I am here. I am not a member of District 37, nor have I been since about 1975 or 76. I have never been a member of CORVA, but I'm thinking of joining up and sending them some money. Dave clearly implies that membership in either of these fine organizations is a bad thing, for some unknown reason. I'm not certain where he gets that, either. Neither organization is working against property owners, as many of their members are just exactly that....private property owners (as am I). Instead, they work diligently against the irrational land-closure-as-management-policy of land use agencies, and the extreme environmentalists who are pushing this as a primary management tool, despite the ample evidence that OHV's have negligible impact on any endangered species.

The connections between aforementioned radical environmentalists and the private property owners they are using to front their anti-access agenda is clear, however, in the form of Community ORV Watch and Alliance for Responsible Recreation. That FOJF has joined with ARR in the lawsuit filed by Sierra Club, CBD, and PEER against the final implementation of WEMO and NECO plans, as well as being listed as a support group for ARR, along with groups such as California Wilderness Coalition, strongly suggests the agenda behind a good portion of FOJF activities. Messages on this very website point to several unnamed FOJF members as also being members of Sierra Club, whose agenda is crystal clear for anyone willing to learn their history in the battle over public access to public lands.

Dave has also mistaken my charge that the foothills above Victor Valley is "meth lab central", and that Dave's neighbors are necessarily limited to those 20 or so residents within spitting distance. I would consider anyone within convenient OHV-riding distance to be a neighbor in an area where trails can be either legal or illegal. I was not necessarily referring to the ranch next door, but he obviously took it that way, and it's the reason he brought the argument here to DCHS forum. I've read plenty here to suggest that there's more than ample drug activity in Juniper Flats, but it's likely no different than Deep Canyon, Dry Canyon, Furnace Canyon, Arctic Canyon, Silverwood Lake, Blue Jay, Cactus Flat, Big Bear Lake, Baldwin Lake, Pioneertown, Landers, Yucca Valley, Morongo Valley, Pinon Hills, Wrightwood, Phelan, Adelanto, Pearblossom, Valyermo, Juniper Hills, Little Rock, Palmdale, or Lake Hughes. I have friends that moved their family away from Quartz Hill to escape the drug environment to ensure their children had less opportunity to be involved or affected by it. Ditto friends who moved the family away from Hesperia. The experience my friends have had with the drug culture of the area has no link on the internet. This is their first-hand experience, which they do not post on the web so someone can win some stupid argument.

Moreover, when investigating stolen OHV's, which is an occurrence becoming all too common in the Johnson Valley OHV Area in the middle of the night, Sheriff Deputies tell the victims that most of the crimes are committed by either meth addicts or meth makers looking for one of two things: a thrill ride without the necessary financial commitment, or a vehicle they can sell as parts for cash.

Dave keeps asking for some sort of police report on the alleged shooting incident. If it was never reported, then there would be no police report, would there? In addition, it wouldn't necessarily be published on the web, either. So Dave is asking for proof that he knows doesn't exist. But it doesn't mean it didn't happen, either. It's accused by someone who would know much better than I. You can demonize this guy Arizona Mike all you want. But I've also read third party posts here claiming he was tossed out of FOJF for being an "OHV spy". Such a heinous crime!

It does say a lot about the mindset of FOJF, however, if being an OHV recreationist is actionable, as in the case of Arizona Mike being thrown out on his ear. Sounds like FOJF is a little delusional about their overall import in the land use battle, and is somewhat paranoid about it to the point they have to purge the organization of so-called "spies". It's a little comical to someone on the outside looking in!

Look, I have no argument with people who live in Juniper Flats unless they are operating under some hidden agenda that attempts to present itself as a friendly grassroots group of nothing more than concerned citizens, while actually being a logistical front group for radical enviro organizations working to end OHV use. But after reading many of Dave's posts both here and on DUSA, I have a very different view of the average FOJF member and the group's intent than anyone lets on from the mission statement and stated goals. Sometimes, actions speak far louder than words. Regardless of how people attempt to characterize things, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. If a majority of members of FOJF share Dave's views, then there's a lot of intellectual dishonesty going on in those meetings. That's what we see at DUSA from Dave. Say one thing, but really mean another. State one goal, but in reality, work toward a different goal. Very deceptive and very transparent. The reality is that Dave is not the first person to tell OHV users that he means no harm, while espousing every aspect of anti-access legislation and litigation that radical enviro groups have to offer. We've been lied to by people far better at it than Dave. The aforementioned enviro groups are working toward the goal of total elimination of motorized access in the backcountry, regardless of what they say. We've already been around this block too many times to be fooled. We know when we're being lied to. Those who support them in that quest are supporting those goals. It's very simple.

On the other hand, most legal OHV users shun and avoid supporting those who ride illegally. They are not a part of our circle of friends and don't join our groups. That is one reason why it's very difficult to reach them. We educate the ignorant, and support the enforcement of existing laws against what they do. But there's no way for us to force 100% compliance, or perfect behavior. That's still an individual choice, and should remain that way.

Knowing who you are dealing with is likely a way to find solutions in Juniper Flats. Understanding that all OHV users are not like the punks who ride illegally in your neighborhood is essential to agreeing on anything. Understanding that all private property owners in your area are not trying to end OHV use is just as important. Juniper Flats is not important to me, personally. I don't visit the area. I understand it's important to some people who recreate on OHV's, some of them illegally. But the solution to disputes over these issues is not to punish me, or to punish law-abiding OHV users for the transgressions of the few. One of the most basic principles that our nation was founded upon is that good citizens should not bear punishment for the deeds of bad people under the law. It applies here just as it does in all sorts of activities.
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted

Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 1205December 17, 2006 10:21AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 625December 17, 2006 06:48PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Rick 1367December 18, 2006 08:32PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 732December 19, 2006 09:48AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Rick 739December 19, 2006 11:07AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 682December 20, 2006 04:41PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 761December 22, 2006 02:04PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Kevin J 744December 21, 2006 08:32AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 690December 21, 2006 04:39PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 742December 21, 2006 01:35PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Rick 754December 21, 2006 07:18PM

They Don't Care If They Get Valley Fever?

Rick 807December 21, 2006 07:20PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 690December 21, 2006 10:07PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 706December 22, 2006 11:32AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Kevin J 752December 22, 2006 09:49PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 596December 22, 2006 09:28AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 723December 22, 2006 01:36PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 586December 22, 2006 06:55PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 654December 22, 2006 08:34PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 542December 22, 2006 09:19PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 649December 23, 2006 06:17AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 571December 23, 2006 09:43AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 725December 23, 2006 11:07AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 663December 23, 2006 11:11AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 714December 23, 2006 04:42PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 652December 23, 2006 09:25PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 683December 24, 2006 03:19PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 604December 23, 2006 09:45PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 648December 25, 2006 10:15AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 1626December 25, 2006 08:43PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 636December 26, 2006 01:32PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 720December 26, 2006 06:20AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 691December 26, 2006 08:03AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Wizard 673December 26, 2006 10:23AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 661December 26, 2006 04:22PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 717December 26, 2006 04:41PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 675December 26, 2006 06:11PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 835December 27, 2006 10:12AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 653December 27, 2006 11:33AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 636December 27, 2006 01:29PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 779December 28, 2006 10:25AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 724December 28, 2006 01:20PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 780December 28, 2006 01:25PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 716December 30, 2006 09:58AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 573December 29, 2006 05:51AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 754December 30, 2006 03:10PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 1086December 31, 2006 04:33PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 680December 31, 2006 03:42PM



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