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Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

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December 23, 2006 11:07AM
There is only one website forum from which I've been banned, and that's sf-indymedia.com, which is an anarchist/anti-globalist website that is expressly intended to disseminate disinformation about the US Government and to abuse the First Amendment to pracitice seditionist tactics (and I'm being gentle with them). Aside from that, I'd like to know which web forum Dave van Voorhis claims is the one from which I was banned several times? DCHS or DUSA? It's never happened, and Dave is lying if he's referring to me. I registered over a year ago here, but have never posted here before, only read the posts of others. And yes, I have unanswered questions about accusations that fly back and forth regarding Dave and others here. Not that it's my business, but if Dave is going to fabricate baseless accusations against me of some of the wicked and nasty things he does over at DUSA, I believe I'm entitled to check out what his neighbors think of him here at DCHS forum.

As to the question about who should fund law enforcement, it's clearly a publicly funded operation in every sense of the word. All local law enforcement is funded by a mix of federal, state, and local taxes, fees, and fines, levied based on geographical area that law enforcement serves. Law enforcement is insufficient to curtail each and every infraction against existing laws in all areas, not just Juniper Flats. We must put up with a certain level of lawlessness in my hometown as well. You think you have tourists, you should see what happens to my town between May and September!

We understand that law enforcement cannot stop every instance of, say, drunk driving by visitors (just to pick a common infraction). Beach visitors account for a large portion of the trouble we experience here. They come here, drink themselves silly, then get in their cars and drive our streets, placing our residents in constant danger. Yet, there is no call for visitors to directly fund our law enforcement here. It is funded based on a sober and documented analysis of need, which includes the relative severity of crimes committed in the area. In Juniper Flats, I suspect that there is not quite the need for law enforcement that we have here in a more populated area. Yet, there is clearly a need for some county, state, and federal funding. I have no problem with allocating funds toward enforcement of existing laws in Juniper Flats. But the ones who are best suited to judge how scarce funds are used in San Bernardino County are the county's own Sheriff Dept and Board of Supervisors. They evidently believe their funding is better spent in other areas where, in their estimation, the crimes are more serious and detrimental to society. They have to choose between allocating funds to investigate a murder in San Bernardino or an illegal rider in Juniper Flats. Not to diminish your problem, but it's clearly a priority issue, and no law enforcement agency has unlimited funds to guarantee that none of its constituents ever has to deal with an unpleasant situation.

There have been calls for the "OHV user group" to police itself, and claims that this is not happening now. Those claims are false, as the few OHV groups that are actually organized and have a few volunteers are working overtime and devoting their holiday weekends in places like Randsburg to be more certain that ignorant OHV users stick to the designated routes (these people often are there for the first time, and have no idea they have to stick to marked routes only). While some errant OHV users are chronic lawbreakers who do so knowingly, the vast majority of transgressors are simply ignorant of the rules and need education and perhaps a little slap on the wrist once to get their attention. The few groups that exist in the OHV community are working diligently over the past 5-10 years to get the word out to their members and, in turn, have those members inform non-members of the rules.

I am convinced your problem has to do with two main issues:
1) Your neighborhood is being approached by a fast-growing city and all its associated problems.
2) Law enforcement levels have not caught up with the frequency of infractions in your area or others.

They have the same problem across I-15 in Pinon Hills and Wrightwood that you do in Juniper Flats. There is a large population nearby, and many of these people moved there so they can recreate right out of their garage and into the hills.

I've had many discussions with BLM employees of many stripes about the issue of where it's legal to ride, and why there are problems associated with it. It's a combination of several factors, not simply the ones I mentioned above, which are specific to foothill areas surrounding Hesperia and Adelanto. The designation of a particular area as to whether or not it's legal to ride is changing constantly. Land is not opening up for OHV use, it's closing down, and has been for 35 years. It's common to find a former favorite riding area from 10 years ago that is now closed. People that assume it's still open, and ride there, are now breaking the law. They weren't illegal riders before, but they are now, and are ignorant of the fact. Also, BLM employees tell us that two different types of people move to the high desert for two primary reasons: 1) to experience quiet sunsets and some measure of peace and quiet, and 2) to be able to recreate right from their own garage into the desert. Both have a legitimate desire, but they are sometimes in direct conflict. I admit that I don't know how to fairly resolve that sort of conflict in a balanced way. I do know that to deny one or the other of their legitimate desire is not a good thing.

If existing laws are being broken, and law enforcement is not paying attention to your needs, then how will passing new and more restrictive ordinances solve anything? They will not be enforced, either. The new county ordinance is a perfect case-in-point. It is now an existing regulation, yet the illegal riding in Juniper Flats has not subsided, according to Dave and others. Seems pretty clear to me that what is needed is not new laws that won't be enforced, but better enforcement of existing laws. What you are doing to document and highlight the problem with local law enforcement is likely the only way to bring larger allocations of law enforcement dollars. I, personally, have no problem with that, because it will help eliminate the pressure on OHV users everywhere. What I DO have a problem with is people who sneeringly disseminate false and pejorative information about OHV users in an attempt to deliberately injure the reputation of all people involved, generate a negative public image, and to tarnish OHV users as a group. At that point, it becomes personal, because there are many good and honest people involved with this activity who don't deserve this. This is what Dave does at DUSA, and it's primarily why he and I wind up engaged in such wrestling matches. He seeks to freely disseminate lies and false claims about OHV users, and the activity, and I seek to point out where he is wrong. I don't enjoy this in the least, but someone has to stand up for what is right, and point out what sort of person does what Dave does. Aside from this, I'm sure he's a wonderful guy. But what he does to foment hate against the OHV users has no excuse.
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted

Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 1108December 17, 2006 10:21AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 559December 17, 2006 06:48PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Rick 1306December 18, 2006 08:32PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 619December 19, 2006 09:48AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Rick 659December 19, 2006 11:07AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 600December 20, 2006 04:41PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 687December 22, 2006 02:04PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Kevin J 699December 21, 2006 08:32AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 633December 21, 2006 04:39PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 691December 21, 2006 01:35PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Rick 697December 21, 2006 07:18PM

They Don't Care If They Get Valley Fever?

Rick 739December 21, 2006 07:20PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 629December 21, 2006 10:07PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 649December 22, 2006 11:32AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Kevin J 700December 22, 2006 09:49PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 543December 22, 2006 09:28AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 663December 22, 2006 01:36PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 531December 22, 2006 06:55PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 607December 22, 2006 08:34PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 482December 22, 2006 09:19PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 596December 23, 2006 06:17AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 517December 23, 2006 09:43AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 665December 23, 2006 11:07AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 586December 23, 2006 11:11AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 648December 23, 2006 04:42PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 596December 23, 2006 09:25PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 630December 24, 2006 03:19PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 542December 23, 2006 09:45PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 581December 25, 2006 10:15AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 1535December 25, 2006 08:43PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 585December 26, 2006 01:32PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 656December 26, 2006 06:20AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 636December 26, 2006 08:03AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Wizard 621December 26, 2006 10:23AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 603December 26, 2006 04:22PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 665December 26, 2006 04:41PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 618December 26, 2006 06:11PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 785December 27, 2006 10:12AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 596December 27, 2006 11:33AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

Paul P. 584December 27, 2006 01:29PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 726December 28, 2006 10:25AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 574December 28, 2006 01:20PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 673December 28, 2006 01:25PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 665December 30, 2006 09:58AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 519December 29, 2006 05:51AM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

LaughingBear 669December 30, 2006 03:10PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

ElliottB 1009December 31, 2006 04:33PM

Re: Off-roader's internet lies on DUSA

mojavegreen 629December 31, 2006 03:42PM



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