You make some great points here, Ron. I agree, and am withdrawing my support for the suggestion that DCV discourage the use of the trail. I do, however, believe Ranger Brad that the erosion danger is real.by sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Thanks, Ron I posted my comments on the meeting, clearly retitled as comments, right after posting the minutes, so perhaps I should have allowed someone else to comment first. Members and nonmembers are welcome to comment on the minutes. If an item has reached consensus at a meeting, voting members who did not attend the meeting are welcome to cast a vote on it for one week. Please correct meby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
The USFS HAS decided that it is in everyone's best interest that the trail not be used, that is why they attempted to cover the trail to reseed it. Why try to connect this to Bowen Ranch? Personally, I don't care how anyone accesses the springs as long as they do no harm. The ranger feels that use (and construction) of this trail is harmful and presents an erosion danger with the potential toby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
The scenario is quite familiar. My tongue-in-cheek offer was meant to illicit a logical response to an illogical proposal. You have responded logically by saying that it is pointless to go on and on about a questionable issue that should be decided in court. We agree, you and I, along with many others who have voiced similar sentiments. Katrina, are you listening? Please let us have pby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I forgot to mention that Ranger Brad told me that he's noticing increased campfire use upstream of the springs. I propose that DCV select breaking up these campfire remains as a focal activity at our September meeting. We could also try out the Whink idea while we are at it on any fire-blackened rocks that are not too close to the stream. DCHS users, please be aware that campfires are never peby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Wow, what a tribute! Thank you William and Gail, for thinking that my opinion matters that much.by sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Good suggestions, Laughing Bear. We haven't discussed discouraging use of this trail as a group, but I am completely in favor of that myself, so my vote is already known. Other members? What do you think?by sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Here are some comments of my own on the meeting and the meeting day. First, on arriving at the springs, I immediately noticed that there has been some considerable vandalsim to the largest tree in the grassy area near the Anniversary pool. 5 or 6 good-sized branches have been yanked down, breaking them off in ragged tears. AZ Mike, Paul, and a helpful volunteer dealt with removing the branchesby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Item#3: Suggested DCV activities. a) Grafitti removal. AZ Mike informed us that we can purchase cans of grafitti remover for about $5.00 at Home Depot. We would also need long, narrow-handled wire brushes, lots of water, and a number of volunteers to effectively deal with the amount of grafitti in a day's organized effort. A visitor (and, I think, new member) suggested trying a product calby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
The minutes will be posted in two parts. PART 1: The meeting started shortly after one p.m. with Paul, Ron, Arizona Mike, and myself in attendence. About a dozen other hotspring visitors chose to listen in to some or all of the meeting. Item #1: Membership Our meeting began with 16 members in our group, and a few from the visiting public joined during the meeting. I didn't get a count of howby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
More agreement here! The voters voted and that is that...that's how democracy works.by sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Paul P., Sorry I didn't repond to you directly last night...had someone waiting to use my computer so I rushed through a quick post. Have you seen the minutes from last month's meeting? The letter to the USFS that we are preparing does address this trail. Basically, we're asking them how we might help them to address their concerns about the trail. For example, if erosion where the trail meetby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Any definitive proof there, Wizard? "Certain folks" is rather vague...but maybe it is really those pesky gremlins. Or just a story. The Wizard would never buy one of those...so take his advice and don't buy his. "Direct knowlede that shows me" is also vague. Absolutely correct about it being legal to hike that way. The USFS doesn't want people to, but it is not illegal.by sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
How else did he get to my campsite? I suppose you want me to prove that he was there...but then he has admitted to that.by sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Thanks, Arizona...looks like I can step out of this discussion and it will go on without me. lol. Seriously, boys, play nice! Yes, Arizona, it does feel nice to know that so many appreciate the rock stacks. So many wonderful things can be done with rocks. To be fair, though, Paul and I had quite a bit of help with that "art gallery" area. I think a lot of people who walk through iby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
No problem, DCR. No comment, Wizard.by sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Wow, I'm so glad so many people know just what I know and don't know! With so many people inside my head, maybe I can take a break! Even Katrina admitted that invading someone's campsite against their wishes is trespassing, regardless of who owns the property. Jobe invaded my campsite after being told numerous times that he was not welcome, and asked repeatedly to explain his purpose. He claiby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Thank you, Gary! Happy hot pottin' to you and hope to see you soon.by sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
DCR, Thank you for your careful consideration of my words. I don't consider myself any kind of word wizard or anything, but it is flattering to see things that I wrote getting such careful study. I will ask that the item be put on the end of the agenda at the meeting. No need to shout it at me, as I offered to do so from the start. One mistake on my part...I did not realize that your initialby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
The story I heard about the trail is the one you told me, both in person and through this forum. So, yes, you are right that it is just a story...yours...and I have no proof whatsoever. As for Katrina, I've said this before but you don't seem to get it. You don't think that Katrina needs any proof to accuse someone of attempted murder among other things, but you think I need proof that theyby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
If neither of you would suggest unstacking rocks as a DCV activity, why did both of you make numerous posts about it on a thread that asked for suggestions for DCV activities? And what about the reference to the USFS, as if you think they are against this activity? You don't see any hint of unfriendliness in both of your posts? I was very friendly about the whole thing, but neither of you wanteby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Yep, that's right Wizard...everything in the National Forest is supposed to be left as it is. No pools built. No Native American artifacts, no clay faces for you to collect, and no tightropes to interrupt the view of nature. After all, if 20 or 50 people love seeing the tightrope walker, and one or two find it as an interruption in nature, then the tightrope walker should be careful to pleaseby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Thank you, Wizard! Re: Katrina's first sentence: BINGO! Re: the tightrope walker: If/when I see him again, I will let him know that the photos have been removed from the site. I am sure he will be pleased that you have respected his wishes. Play nice, everone!by sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I wasn't suggesting that anyone has to do anything. Paul and I get positive feedback on rock stacking all the time, wherever we do it. I understand that some do not like it, but many do. I also know that some people...some artists...get so territorial over their creations that they get angry at people who destroy them or complain about them. I was just letting DCR know that I would be perfectby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Giving up Deep Creek because of negativity, but continuing to post on this forum? Hmmm... I've seen that people who disagree with Katrina's "mission" often get maligned, both directly and through innuendo, but if "rock stacker" is the worst name I get called, I will wear it with pride. And if anyone chooses to believe that I do all or even most of the stacks, well go aheadby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Gary, What a disappointment...you were doing so well at keeping out of the fray! Just to clarify, the word "little" can be seen quite often in previous posts between Wizard and AZ Mike, and it was generally said by Wizard to AZ. Wizard was also calling him "Gollum" and even posted a picture of that character. As for me, I have no trouble getting along with AZ Mike. He waby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Ease up there, Wizard! I was only trying to shed some light on the matter...to let you know that it was the internet posting, and not the picture taking, that this man seemed to mind. I was not trying to start some debate or argument over whether your actions are justified. I thought that, hearing that the man was unhappy, you would appreciate knowing what he didn't like about it. I stand bby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
No need to pretend you like rock stacking if you don't. Personally I cannot understand it being a greater nuisance than litter, and it doesn't damage the environment, either. (Of course, I would not remove rocks from stream beds where I might upset the eggs of fish or amphibians...that would be damaging!) But, there was plenty of rock stacking to be seen before I started adding my contributionby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
DCR, Thank you for once again sharing your opinion on this art form. You said once that some people considered it grafitti, and I wondered who those people might be. I have talked to many people about it since then, and have come across only two people who object to it, you and one other. The other persons objection was that it conveyed some sort of non-christian spiritual message. It may forby sycamorelaughing - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California