Ah the " Strawman " shows up again! Were you and Mellowguy on the same Debate Team? You say that I mis-understand you but then go on to list the very same premis that Mellowguy has been propounding from the beginning. I don't think at all that most of the people here are confused about what he implies by his words. Show me where I have ever used the word " mandatory ". If anyone is erecting Strawmen it has been you and Mellowguy just pulling up stuff out of thin air like you citing that somehow I used the word mandatory in my arguments. We are talking about one point of courtesy and you two consistently, on purpose, transform the argument as representing the general ideas of courtesy that one might have, like your either with us, or against us when it comes to ideas of courtesy. Also, show me where anyone at this forum, in all of its archives has ever suggested that known pedophiles, or those exhibiting pedophile behaviors should not be monitered. Your ideas regarding that subject is nothing new to us.

Then in another paragraph you in essence lump your basic naked unaccompanied man into the same group with pedophiles in these words you wrote, " When it comes to the particular topic of children versus pedophiles, it is especially dangerous to not expect naked unaccompanied men to give children at hotsprings any space". So did anyone here say that naked men should be cuddling up with other people's children? Then after setting up this Strawman, you go on to write this " Courteous men would not want to inject that anxiety and possible misunderstanding into their fellow users of hotsprings. Callous ones would not care. ", which is you implying once again, which you have done before, that to be courteous the single male to avoid any such misunderstanding and not be considered one who is callous or un-caring should not get in the hotpool with children. Nothing in your arguments makes the distinction of how to deal reasonably with situations between properly mannered individuals and ill mannered ones. Your ideas remind me of that Tom Cruise movie Minority Report, where people are judged pre-emptively for crimes they have not even commited yet. Just being nude does not mean you are being lewd and I agree with this concept wholeheartedly being a long time member of the Naturist Society. And like I said before, women are not immune to being ill-mannered too.

And then you write, " If we could take a poll, I would suggest that it include not just single men at DCHS (as you've suggested) ". Perhaps my brain has been completely disrupted by cooking in aluminum pans but mind showing me where I suggested that a poll could be taken at DCHS of ONLY SINGLE MEN. I did write of taking a poll of ALL OF THE HOTSPRING VISITORS that you would find at DCHS, for a years time. You and Mellowguy must be getting this stuff from another forum, in some alternative universe of your own making :-)

So how much time did it take you Sungirl2 to put that small list of what you call " the majority opinion " together. You really think that a few comments pulled from the web is by any reasonable interpretation to be taken as some absolute proof that the view cited therefor represents the majority? I see in the reality of what the people do at places like DCHS what they think, what their vote regarding this notion of yours would be. Actions show the " true " intent. Talk is cheap. Its like this pulled from your own listed excerpt, " "Mellow Guy---Yes---I know exactly what you are saying---In a perfect world that would be great---In the real world, Good Luck---" ". Yep, there's the wished for world of Sungirl2 and Mellowguy, then there's that thing they call the Real World, where people just do what they want, no matter what you might wish, or no matter what they have said they would do. And there are many things I see going on at DCHS that I don't like too, but no matter, it goes on anyway, because DCHS is not a controlled situation like a private club, or the almight Japanese Onsen Bath :-)

Matters of morals, ethics, and even courtesy are not things set in stone, existing on some universal unquestioned tablet of absolute guidlines. I, and clearly some others here have dis-aggreed with a few of the specific points you are making. You should not imply, no matter how subtly you do it that because we don't agree with you, then somehow we are therefor callous or un-courteous people. In all of this I am just citing my opinion, and this in no way stops you from proceeding to follow your interest in this subject as you might want to. You and Mellowguy want to go down to DCHS on a regular basis and try to actually in any noticeable way alter things towards the ends you seek, have at it. Let us all know how well that works out for you. All of this just brings to my mind why I have gravitated towards seeking out pristine landscapes where people's various foolishness cannot follow me and taint my time with nature :-)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2010 05:27PM by Wizard.