No OMG. I wouldn't want you to shoot someone who is merely trespassing. I thought I had made it clear that it would require a direct threat of significant bodily harm or death. The law is quite clear on this. It's one's own choice whether to defend oneself, flee, or simply submit to whatever an attacker has in store for them. LaughingBear spends a significant amount of time convincing the publicby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
You haven't seen abuse until you hand government the power to make the decisons in your rural neighborhood, Dave. What you are asking for is designed to end the problem child of illegal OHV use. But what the government has to do to solve your particular pet peeve may come back around to bite you in the arse. At that point, it will be much too late to reverse the precedent you've established. I doby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
In my view, anyone who supports California Wilderness Coalition is supporting extremists. Paul Spitler told me himself of his vision of what should happen with OHV use. It's an extremist view if ever there was one. Yes, I'd say COW and ARR are supporting extremists, since they support the CWC. I would oppose them as a result. It doesn't mean everyone involved is an extremist themselves. But somby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Only if it's not in self-defense. LaughingBear Dave has told us at DUSA that the attacks by OHV riders on innocent landowners in Juniper Flats, just trying to shoo them away, have been on the dramatic increase. According to him, it's at epidemic levels, where landowners are constantly in danger of being run over by angry OHV users on a rampage. When one is attacked with deadly force, and an ATVby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Actually, I was referring to the post by LaughingBear at 9:40 on 7-17-07. I mistakenly chose the wrong part of the thread.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Rick, Are we ok? I don't want to be a wart on the ass of progress, and I don't want to force my ideas on anyone. But I think my views are farily common among the OHV ridership, and I think I can present a view that may help everyone understand the perspective of legal and responsible OHV riders, despite the fact that I am called "irresponsible" by one or two individuals. Danby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I have a libertarian streak in me about 50 yards wide. But it does not mean I'm a liberal, unless you mean a JFK liberal. Since we're not in the 1960's any more, we pretty much have to identify ourselves by today's standards. By those standards, I'm pretty conservative, believe in strong rights of private property owners, but there are limits to everything. I think the public ought to have very lby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Rick, Is this not ad hominem?by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I have no problem with larger registration numbers on existing number plates, as long as we understand the limitations of identification techniques. I think the owner of the vehicle should be liable for any citations issued to his vehicle's license number. If he can't trust his buddy, then don't lend him the vehicle. I think it's a little big-brother-ish to place electronic tracking devices of sby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Rick, If you want honest and open discussion on your message board, you sometimes have to put up with people with whom you disagree, and you have to treat people fairly, whatever the rules are. If you don't want to apply the rules fairly in a case such as this, and only want opinions with which you personally agree, then I'll be glad to leave, and you'll have a nice sterile little world where noby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I was actually asking OMG, who complains of constant "intrusions" on her property by OHV riders.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Likewise, Mojavegreen. I advocate for laws remaining as they were before 3973, except that enforcement be more effective, sting operations being conducted, Code Enforcement being given the authority to enforce trespassing (PC 602) as well as noise and dust ordinances, and that citizen patrols (possibly including OHV enthusiasts who are sick and tired of losing legal riding opportunities). I am loby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I don't think anyone likes your ideas.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Rick, Are you saying that my post is an ad hominem attack, but Paul's was on topic and pertinent to the discussion?by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I've already sent Roxie Trost an email message.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Is your land posted or fenced?by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Hold on, mojavegreen. Are you saying that there are no wingnuts involved in the environmental movement or among the private property owners who are attempting to end OHV use? I'm curious just what you consider environmental extremism? I honestly believe OHV users are once again being jacked here. It's happened dozens of times, and we have just about 5% of public lands in California availablby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Well, Paul, I see you are capable of poisoning the well of understanding, inflaming the debate, exaggerating claims of envirochondriacs, trumpeting the accusations made and inflated by environmental groups, and generally making agreement and solutions impossible. Are you intentionally trying to do this or is it simply reflex? I can list all the horrible things that environmental groups and theirby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
So, you are fine with James Watt as dictator of what should happen with public and private lands? He is a perfect example of "educated professionals who spend their lives and carreers dedicated to public service managing our public lands". It's easy to pick and choose those with whose opinions we may agree, then crown them king or queen of all they survey. But when the shoe is on theby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
By the way, Dave. You demand that OHV people must be more responsible in their riding practices. I suggest you be more responsible in your posts on the internet and in your actions off the internet. If not, you are no better than the illegal riders you love to demonize.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dave, if you want agreement, this is not the way to get it. It's the most acidic and vitriolic way to upset the chess board. It's childish, in my opinion. You don't know that it was retaliatory any more than the rest of us do. Characterizing it as such is nothing more than wild speculation, and only inflames the debate into an emotional slippery slope. No wonder acrimony and disdain follow you wby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I understand from your other posts that you feel any set of tire tracks constitute damage to the environment, and that any OHV use is potential damage to the land. But the reality is that your views are not shared by the vast majority of the public. OHV users have about 5% of public lands in California on which to recreate, despite the fact that approximately 17% of California households are hoby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Kelly, While we are being honest about the issues, let's point out that traveling across an unmarked, unposted, and unfenced portion of open desert land is not necessarily "damage". While I agree that not every landowner wants a motocross track on his/her property, it's quite a stretch to consider a few sets of tire tracks to be damage worth worrying about. One trail across a 200-acreby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I can't agree with either of you on that issue. For certain, it will have an effect on legal riders in many areas. It will generate lots of revenue for the County. It will likely even discourage legal riders from staging in groups on public lands near legal designated limited use trails. It will no doubt result in some citations to people riding on large open tracts of private land that are unmarby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
That's funny. I was probably right in front of you or right behind you on Hwy 28 on our way back around 5:00 or shortly thereafter. I seem to recall a few vehicles pulled over after a game of bumper cars right around Sand Harbor State Park.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Rick wrote: > Big Ed wrote: > > > I think the clock on the server must be whacky. I was in bed > by > > about 10:30 last night. > > It's on Central Time. The server is in Texas. That makes sense.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Right on all counts, Paul. The loss of rights are called a "prescriptive easement". You can google and learn all about it. I am glad to see you were able to prosecute trespassers who ignored your signs. Bet you didn't get to keep the $1000, though, LOL!by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I think the clock on the server must be whacky. I was in bed by about 10:30 last night.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
You can call me Dan.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Orange County.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California