Sorry. You'll have to excuse the fact that I have no sense of humor about that issue. I think what has been done to OHV users (and our system of justice, as well as the concept of Federal Agency management) in the last 35 years by environmental groups should be criminal. Of course it was not a threat. It was a reference to the increased activism and motivation of OHV users to act in their own beby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Let me re-phrase that. Kicking down markers, shooting them with guns, pulling them up and throwing them away does nothing to help OHV users. It does everything to help anti-OHV people. Who do YOU think is destroying markers?by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
You're a funny guy. It's not so funny to us. If you support the enviro-agenda, then you may have a bit of surprise coming. If you don't, you know how to re-earn our trust. Your choice, funny boy.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Paul and Dave, Please don't hate me just because I'm beautiful! Love, Danby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I'm just fine, thanks. Getting lots of work done, in between posts here and other places. This is fun, this freedom of speech stuff. We all get to voice our full range of opinions, instead of being locked out of the debate.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
The suggestion that OHV riders are responsible for vandalizing "Open" route markers doesn't make much sense. Why would an OHV rider do what is decidedly not in his best interest? If he vandalizes the "Open" markers, all he succeeds in doing is reducing his available trails. Why would he do that? On the other hand, someone who seeks to close all trails would have everything toby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Paul, That's like saying we should outlaw the use of automobiles because some of the "user group" rob banks, run red lights, smuggle drugs, kidnap children, speed on our highways, drive drunk, commit road rage, and drive without a seatbelt. Your assertion is not logical. What you are asserting is the mantra of ecochondriacs and the laundry list of complaints they have compiled about wby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
The problem with that outlook is: 1. Law enforcement can learn the skills. They do it for all field police officers that may eventually end up in a car chase. With a little practice, they become at least as proficient as the crooks they are chasing. They don't hesitate to do so on our highways, which are full of innocent "bystanders". Why should they hesitate in the backcountry or ruraby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Lending support to measures that change legal OHV opportunities into illegal ones is counter-productive to our own best interest. It would be like lobbying for more Limited Use trails, or to re-open an area to OHV use that has been closed, and expecting environmental interests to go along with it, just to get along. We'd be helping the "larger agenda". See, the problem stems from theby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I don't understand. If someone runs a red light in a car, law enforcement pursues, even though there is heavy traffic of casual uninvolved "bystanders". Plenty of opportunity to create huge liability for the department and the government for which they are an agency. They get upwards of 100 mph or more. Yet, in the middle of the desert, law enforcement cites liability as a reason theyby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
When I discuss those with more money than common sense, I am referring to people who claim to be in favor of "responsible recreation", but are really aiming to end all OHV use. If you don't fit that group, then don't take it personally. I'm simply tired of being mischaracterized by a relatively small and vocal group who lies to get their political point across. These people all back 39by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Then why can't laws target only the illegal riding instead of spilling over into the legal riding? Why is it that those who claim to target only illegal riding always advocate closure as a management tool? Closure only hurts the legal rider, not the illegal rider. When trails are outlawed, law abiding riders avoid them (with the exception of the obviously ignorant). Tweekers, teenagers, and inteby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
So, when the tweeker kid from Hesperia rides his cousin's bike up through JF on illegal trails, stops to kick over some "Open" and "Closed" trail markers, then some other group of three 17-year-olds comes along and rides the closed trail because they don't see the marker, it's the three that have their vehicles confiscated? How is that justice? Or, is the rage so great that soby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
In other words, there is already a felony-level charge that can be used and enforced if someone evades a LEO? What more do they want, blood?by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
It sounded to me that Paul was advocating losing the vehicle permanently on the first offense.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Hi Rick, It's actually Dan. No need to be snippy. I'm simply pointing out that there are some on the DCHS forum who obviously don't take too kindly to any OHV use in the area. We get the hint.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
You have to consider the source. Some people have already closed their minds. It pays to know where they are coming from.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I have to agree, Rick. Proof is the lack of enforcement of PC 602 and noise and dust enforcement under existing ordinances.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Thanks for the link, Rick. I've seen that map before. About 10 years ago, I was up there helping out with a club ride, but I didn't get very far from the Pinnacles Staging area. Someday, perhaps I'll get to go again when I can venture farther from Pinnacles Staging area. I have a few friends who ride in the Deep Creek area sometimes. Maybe I'll get them to show me around. I've seen the WEMO mapby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
You're just mad because you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny! What the heck, makes as much sense as your reply.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
That you seek to put words in my mouth, and accuse me of supporting something which I clearly do not support, tells us a lot about your own perspective, Dave. You know better.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Casually speaking, you are correct. Technically speaking, the routes are not open, but are legal. The term "Open" has a very specific meaning in BLM vernacular, and can confuse some riders who are not familiar. Honestly, Rick, I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt here. I don't consider all supporters of 3973 to be extremists, although some are. You shouldn't consider all opponentsby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
In this regard, Paul, they could also apply 3973 only within 1000 ft of homes, but it's applied throughout the entire county. If your concept fits for your suggestion regarding public nudity, shouldn't it also fit for OHV use in San Bernardino County? As long as one is not actually bothering someone, should the activity be restriction-free?by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Personally, I have never been to JF. I don't specifically have a dog in that fight, although I also understand that when scarce foothill access to legal USFS trails is lost, it can't be a good thing for OHV exploration and recreation. Trails can be legal to use, but if we can't get to the trails legally, what's the difference? I never intended to go there, but when I heard that Roxie Trost wasby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
That would depend upon whether the rider is actually attempting to run someone down, or attempting to "roost" a landowner with dirt from the rear wheels. I was led to believe by Dave that the incidents in JF were most assuredly attempts at harm, or worse. He provided an example from another area, where a landowner suffered a badly broken leg and a week or so in the hospital when confronby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
When did standing up for one's own rights constitute harrassment, retaliation, or extremism? I thought it was our most basic right to speak our minds!?!? This wouldn't be your attempt to stifle our First Amendment rights as citizens, would it? Speaking out for my rights as a citizen doesn't make me an extremist, it makes me an American. Extremist is YOUR word.by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Truer words were never spoken, mojavegreen. The problem we have had, and the reason OHV riders have lost so many legal opportunities, is that organizing this bunch is like herding cats. It's a frustrating bunch to get together. Everyone is so individualistic, and not many are politically active. We don't speak with one voice. Until now, there's been widespread apathy in the ranks. I am sensing, hby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Sorry to disappoint you, Rick. I am not in favor of "ride where I want and I don't care who owns the land". I'm not sure how you jumped to that conclusion from my posts. I ride legally. I do not trespass on duly posted or fenced property. I can't tell for certain if I have ridden on unmarked or unfenced private property. But if I had to guess, I'd say I probably have. Please keep in miby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I understand, mojavegreen. You don't know me from Adam. So, I appreciate your trust. I think the people who should bear the personal responsibility for illegal riding is illegal riders 100%. But I'm not naiive enough to believe that there aren't other contributing factors. One is that you are very close to what is quickly becoming an urban area. You are the urban/rural interface. These sorts ofby Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Now, back to my real question to OMG: Is your private property posted in accordance with state law PC 602, or is it fenced?by Big Ed - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California