Times have changed, Dan. Motor vehicles were unknown at that time and trespass had immediate and direct consequence. If you want to have a country that is governed by law, you must have laws that work. Section 602 PC was not working, it worked for you but not the property owner. Since you are trying to weaken property protection, are you proposing that property be held by the state? Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "Due to this opinion of yours, am I supposed to flip out and begin flinging epithets and wild accusations, LOL? All this indicates is that BDS is alive and well in JF." Au contraire, Dan! We are trying to calm you down. What is a BDS? Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "Spitler told me he advocates no OHV use at all. Anywhere." Dan, I hate to question your honesty. But based on my own public and private contact with members of the Commission, that characterization of Spitler is outrageously false. You demonize those having any difference of opinion, so it is understandable that Spitler would be given the same treatment. Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan, As an example, your highly negative characterization of Brother Bear is very different from his true character and position on these issues. Quite likely you are making the same mistake in judging Paul Spitler? Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan, The evidence of OHV non-compliance is on the landscape. Why call it allegations? "Horrible and evil" is your choice of words, not theirs. You might find that less emotion would serve to close some distance on these issues. Hope you are enjoying this great full moon weekend! Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Thanks, Dan! I learned from Allen.by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I have attended OHMVR Commission meetings. Your characterization of Spitler is inaccurate. His position is that OHV use is a popular and growing sport and should be accepted as such. He is looking for middle ground in contrast to another member who bullied the members and attendees. We pushed for law enforcement and Waldheim wanted money spent on adding trails and trail maintenance. In my opby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Or maybe that your arguments are fecious, Dan.by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "It's all a function of the two above reasons, both of which can be solved with money and resources." Works for you, Dan. You live in Orange County so let San Bernardino County taxpayers throw money at this problem.by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "I think what has been done to OHV users (and our system of justice, as well as the concept of Federal Agency management) in the last 35 years by environmental groups should be criminal." Corrupt practices in regard to land use issues in our region was investigated by Dept. of Interior Inspector General. The results may eventually be made public. Do you really want to knoby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I like that, Allen. I meant it humorously and Dan took it humerusly!by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
"Humorous", that is.by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I might add, Dan, that you have tough talk and a thin skin. My posting was met to be humerous. Your claims of betrayal pale in comparison to what we have experienced. Want to go there? If so, let's start a new thread. Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "Kicking down markers, shooting them with guns, pulling them up and throwing them away does nothing to help OHV users. It does everything to help anti-OHV people. Who do YOU think is destroying markers?" These guys got a low number in Darwin's waiting room, Dan. They don't connect defiant and lawless behavior to potential loss of riding opportunity. Witness these forums.by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Rick writes, "Is that a threat?" Easy to recognize, Rick. Threats, retaliation and personal attacks are intended to intimidate. Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "See, the problem stems from the fact that we've been lied to so often, and betrayed so many times, that we don't trust anyone who is attempting to levy new restrictions on OHV use any more. The liars have poisoned the well." _______________ Thank you for sharing your pain, Dan. Healing is tough! (Did the bastards slip you a date-rape drug?) Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "Non-compliance is YOUR friend, not mine." _____________ OHV non-compliance is no one's friend, Dan. We should at least be able to agree on that. Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "But the localized issue you see there, and what some other residents see in a few selected other communities at the urban/rural interface is being used by people who have a much larger agenda." ________________ Instead of fighting attempts to resolve local "issues", Dan, why not give some support? Then us simple folk wouldn't be so vulnerable to "being usedby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Two reasons officers are not likely to pursue, Dan: 1. OHV chase involves risk of serious injury to officer. 2. Those who "run" usually have race experience, i.e. superior skills and superior machines.by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "Why is it that those who claim to target only illegal riding always advocate closure as a management tool?" __________________ Closure is a last resort when a region proves unmanageable. Pretending there is no problem is not an effective management tool. Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "But there are many areas now closed where vehicle use has been historic, well documented, and benign to the environment. Yet, closure was forced simply because some people with more money than common sense simply want all OHV use outlawed, and want us all in high rise buildings in downtown San Bernardino." ________________ Locals don't fit your scenario, Dan. In general,by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "Or, is Dave simply directing his rage at the most available target?" __________________ Rage? And how are you today, Dan? Mojaveby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "So, when the tweeker kid from Hesperia rides his cousin's bike up through JF on illegal trails, stops to kick over some "Open" and "Closed" trail markers, then some other group of three 17-year-olds comes along and rides the closed trail because they don't see the marker, it's the three that have their vehicles confiscated? How is that justice?" ________by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Sorry your post keeps getting lost. This will bring it back to the top!by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "Everyone is so individualistic, and not many are politically active. We don't speak with one voice." Wishing you success, Dan. If you were organized, you might be able to put pressure on some of the loose cannons whose actions may result in the closing of areas with a high degree of non-compliance. When we organized, we emphasized cooperation and friendliness in dealingby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "Self defense should never be taken lightly, and taking the life of another human being would be a very traumatic event for anyone, regardless of the circumstances. I'm speaking from second-hand knowledge here, as I have personal friends who have had to take the life of an attacker. But if the problem of violent OHV riders in Dave's neighborhood is as prevalent as he says it is,by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "I think I can present a view that may help everyone understand the perspective of legal and responsible OHV riders, despite the fact that I am called "irresponsible" by one or two individuals." Dan, your claim that you ride responsibly does not seem to be in question. However, your tendency towards incendiary rhetoric seems "irresponsible" in view ofby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Rather than fear government, Dan, why not organize for greater effectivity? That's what we did.by mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Dan writes, "I have no problem with larger registration numbers on existing number plates, as long as we understand the limitations of identification techniques. I think the owner of the vehicle should be liable for any citations issued to his vehicle's license number. If he can't trust his buddy, then don't lend him the vehicle. I think it's a little big-brother-ish to place electronic trby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Ed writes, "We first have to be realistic about who is moderate and who is an extremist. Then we have to have completely honest dialogue. Without these two things, there can be no agreement, and there will be constant war." Dan, on one extreme, there are those frustrated with escalating destruction of public and private land and see closures as the only viable solution. On the otherby mojavegreen - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California