Ken Piel and Dan O' live in a world all their own.... but seriously, I'm concerned about changes in sub-committee. Hansberger was really nice to FOGR. -Even when they started to shout him down. We'll need to watch how events progress carefully.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
The buses are in-county. We have them beat in the letter writing category but you never know what can happen at the last minute. I do not want to deal with a bunch of asses in my personal space. Remember how bad it was before the ordinance? It will be worse if Ordinance 3973 goes down. We MUST show up. -With friends!by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I think that's a great idea, Mojave. ORVers need to stand up and be counted -with their bikes. Arriving by bus, someone might mistake them for 'Enviro-weenies'. That would be terrible.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
FOGR is bringing in riders by the bus-full to turn the clock back, so we need to get out there to support the ordinance. Bring everyone you know and write letters. You can not send too many letters. If you value peace, quiet, privacy -not having some bozo tear up your land and roads, be there! 9:00am, Tuesday, Aug 21. 385 North Arrowhead Avenue, San Bernardinoby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
In the desert, every roof should have a solar cell. It's stupid not too. -If the cost weren't so prohibitive... I wonder how many roof-top solar cells could be installed and harnessed for what it costs to build a new power plant and infrastructure.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
What did he tell you? We have your opinion of his words but what did he actually say?by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I'm sorry I thought we talking about why cops don't pursue ORVers when they flee cross country. Did you want to talk about something else?by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Puh'leaze , yourself. Feel free to ask a law enforcement officer why they don't pursue ORVers. They might not phrase it exactly as I did but it is the same.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Actually, it's because hurting a pretty, white, quasi-middle-class boy who's participating in an 'all-american pastime' doesn't read so well in the press. The people I get are not racers. I can drive across sand better in my '91 Ford Escort Station wagon then some of these guys in their shiny toys. The police do not want the lawsuits from the family especially since until the Police give chaseby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Were these routes legal, historic trails? -Or were they illegal? I wonder if some of the bitching of closures is about roads ORVers never were authorized to be on. -Like the people bitching about getting written permission to ride on someone else's private property (or having to read a map). -To me, that's not a closure- that's a clean-up.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Agreedby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
In lengthy conversations that I've had with law enforcement, is it my understanding that if a rider runs across country, they do not pursue. -At least our local sheriff is not in the habit of doing so. They have to catch them on the road. It is one of law enforcements chief frustrations around ORVers is that they see the cops and run. -and not to stir up bad feelings but I think Allen describedby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I think we have to allow for the lost and uninformed but if they run when they see the po-po, I think it's a fair bet they know they're doing something wrong. In that case, they should get a harsher penalty.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Why shouldn't someone expect complete silence.- Especially if they've done their research to buy into a community that supports that quality of life value?by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Cool. -So we have a point that I think we agree on: Which is holding the owner of the bike responsible for what happens when the bike is being is ridden. I'm not thrilled with wireless 'buggy' stuff either -but Mojave asked about technology to improve off road compliance. and not wanting to do anything that might further endanger riders, it seemed that something small and electronic that goes iby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Big Ed, Of course, I would have supported it. If everyone had good manners and common sense -I'd support no laws at all. ...But that's not the world I live in. The code enforcement officer observed approximately 7600 illegal riders out of approximately 40,000 riders altogether in our little hi desert area. That's no small problem. Code enforcement also detailed why the ordinance works in compby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Another idea: What about having an electronic tracker on the bike? -Like they do in cell phones or rental cars. Each one could have an individual signal like an IP address for computers. -Use some of that 'smart' technology.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
So what do y'all think about my GPS permission registry, huh? -or having riders wear big fabric numbers on their space gear? -Or having the offense follow the owner of the toy? -Wouldn't that increase sales for bike owners? -That'd be good, right? How 'bout it huh? -What do you think? I'm going to get very bored with this conversation if the responses are limited to some lame constitutional aby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I'm not a rider and I bought land far from any public riding area, so I shouldn't see riders or be affected by them ever. (In my home, that is) -But I get riders all the time. -Most of them aren't bad people -they just see a piece of undeveloped land and think somehow that they've arrived at a park. Most will stop and talk to me when I flag them down but a few... -Anyway I don't have the timeby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
I was referring to the certain group that takes pleasure in riding over things -hates trails and rules because they're there. The kinds of people that won't let anyone else in on the conversation. If you look at my other posts, you can see that I try to make distinctions within the overall ORV grouping. -and 'desert destroyers' aren't limited to ORVers but as they get cheaper and more prolifiby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
It does apply to public lands -not ORV land but non-ORV use designated. Pre-ordinance it was riders everywhere. Now riders are going more where they can legally be -rather than the free-wheeling it was before.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Thankfully, not all ORVers have that attitude. I'd like to see the owner of the bike or the parent held accountable. I think it would cut down a lot on irresponsible riding. People would pay a lot more attention to where their things are. Parents would pay more attention to what their kids are doing if the parents were held accountable for the child's actions. It would no longer be a big joke oby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Going back to the topic: I'm a land holder in San Bernardino County. -and when you drive across my land -that is damage. -which makes me think you owe me. If you'd like to buy my land so you can ride on it -that's a whole other thing. -but what makes you think you should have it for free? It doesn't get much more capitalist than real estate.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
My solution is getting riders to understand the potential harm of their actions. -Then maybe they'll be more careful about where they act. It's not that they shouldn't act but how, where and under what circumstances.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
How am I calling anyway a name? what do you call taking something and not paying for it? -Stealing, I guess. When you take something from me ie the value of my unaltered land and I'm left with paying to fix it, what is that? -though in desert land, it can't really be fixed once the damage is done.... If We're going to get anything done, we have to be honest about the issues.by OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
"but it's not an issue on all large private lots in other parts of the County which bisect or isolate public lands suitable for OHV use." What gives you the right to change someone elses private property? That seems pretty communist or wrong or something. If you want to break it, you should have to buy it. As a real estate investor, land is my capital. -Who are you to screw it up wiby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
This is from Hugh Orem on the DUSA board. He explains how the ordinance works with 602.5 PC -the California law Dan (quote)PC 602 addresses each and every one of the issues presented by annoyed private property owners. There are, however, some significant differences, not the least of which is that Code Enforcement doesn't seem to have the authority to enforce PC 602, a state law, or I would thiby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
It doesn't make sense to me at all that I'm more liable for not letting you ride on my land than if you were to ride on my land with my permission and get injured. No sense at all. We haven't really talked about this but the new trend in housing is for wildlife corridors and native habitat support. Zip codes that practice that philosophy of development are very expensive. Those zip codes actuaby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
The hearing is now scheduled for Aug 21. I know it's a pain to reschedule but it's important that we do our utmost to be there. Reposted Author: desertdude Date: 06-20-07 14:53 ACTION ALERT * ACTION ALERT * ACTION ALERT * ACTION ALERT San Bernardino County Board of Supervisors to will meet on Tuesday, July 24 to consider changes that would weaken the county ORV ordinance Rider's groupsby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California
Someone has to be paying the taxes. They're usually the one's to start with. My family rehabs old homesteads. When looking to acquire a piece of property, it's the first place we start. The problem with fencing is that it puts an unreasonable burden on the land owner. -and when it gets ripped out... Part of my land is un-fence-able because part of my property occupies a wash. No trespassing siby OMG - Deep Creek Hot Springs, Apple Valley, California