Sycamore, I am sorry if you perceive my posts to be vague. I did not understand that they were not clear to you so I will try to go back over the posts ...

My original comment here was in response to:

Author: Arizona Mike
Date: 07-19-03 09:51

"I am going to suggest that we (group members) concentrate on ways to lesson the negative impact of the springs and trails."

I responded:

Author: DCR
Date: 07-21-03 09:19

"One way to lesson the negative impact on the springs and trails is to eliminate the rock stacks ... it diminishes the beauty of nature itself."

Re: It's almost here....
Author: sycamorelaughing
Date: 07-22-03 21:54

"If neither of you would suggest unstacking rocks as a DCV activity, why did both of you make numerous posts about it on a thread that asked for suggestions for DCV activities?"

I can only speak for myself but like I said above, it was in response to Az Mike's post. And the numerous posts are because it was being discussed.

"You don't see any hint of unfriendliness in both of your posts? I was very friendly about the whole thing, but neither of you wanted to let it go or to clarify how this relates to DCV activities. So, I finally called you both on it..."

No, I don't ... I was only stating my preference and it was not intended to offend you. The point was about improving the area ... it's not a natural formation and some people (for example my husband, Wizard and myself - even Az Mike said he didn't like it but now goes along with it) find it a nuisance. I would have "let it go" but for all the clarification you have requested.

"Or why DCR would make post after post, even calling it litter, then suggest that I am being unfriendly when I ask why. Neither of you answered my questions, just kept going on about it."

I did not call the rock stacking litter, I simply made a comparision to litter. It is an unatural, unattractive nuisance that many people do not like. I would suspect that some people you have talked to about the activity are being nice trying not to hurt your feelings ... maybe some don't like it but just choose to remain silent about it. Have you considered that?

"DCR...you are right, I have not heard you say that you hate Mike Castro. You do seem to prefer the company of people who hate him, trespass on his property, and etc., but here you have caught me making an assumption and I do apologize for it."

I do not label people or choose my friends based on their loyalty to Mike Castro. As I have stated before, I have never seen Mike Castro do anything to anyone but I continue to keep an open but cautious mind. Every time I have acessed the springs through the Bowen Ranch I have paid the toll. Who is it that I associate with that hates him? Wizard? Az Mike? You? Paul? I don't quite understand who you are refering to. Under your premis, you must hate Mike Castro since I have associated with you in the past. I don't know of anyone trespassing on the Bowen Ranch ... everyone accessing the springs through it pays the toll. If not, I would think that is a matter for Mike Castro to take up with that particular individual. Thank you for admitting your error about me hating Mike Castro. That is the second time I can recall someone admitting an error here on the forum.

"Maybe one of you would be willing to satisfy my curiosity...how come you never mentioned this aversion to rock stacking when you saw me stacking rocks? And why, again, did you spend so many posts making it clear that you do not feel that I have a right to do it, DCR saying it is worse than litter, when neither of you is suggesting it as a DCV activity?"

I have only seen you once upstream ... I am not even sure if the rock-stacking issue was discussed that day. I don't believe I saw you stacking rocks that day, but I could be wrong. I do remember certain questions that my husband or I discretely changed the subject or somehow suggested it was an unwise subject. Although, I do not recall the specific topics. We tend to have quite conservative views (as you are probably aware) and some things are just plain "dynamite" to discuss.

Once again, I never said rock-stacking is worse than litter. But it does detract from the natural scenery as does litter. (This is another comparison.) At least it doesn't pose health concerns the way litter does.

"Well, this thread was started to ask for suggestions for DCV activities to benefit DCHS. I am very hopeful that we can organize a graffiti-removal activity. (no objections to cleaning them, I hope) Perhaps other suggestions will surface once we all move on from arguments over rock-stacking. Is that acceptable to you, Wizard? DCR?"

Yes, of course ... why wouldn't "other suggestions for DCV activities" be acceptable to me or to Wizard? That statement seems a little demeaning, in my opinion.

Author: sycamorelaughing
Date: 07-23-03 07:57

"I agree that DCV should be doing more productive things than unstacking rocks, regardless of who stacked them. That is why I asked DCR to clarify...why was she making all these posts about how awful she thinks the rock stacks are on this thread? The first time I asked her to clarify, and invited her to have it put on the agenda if that is what she was after, she ignored my question and proceeded to call rock stacking "litter.""

That is not what you said in your post ... there was no question which to respond ... and for the last time, I did not call it litter. Please review your post below:

Author: sycamorelaughing
Date: 07-21-03 10:00

"DCR,
Thank you for once again sharing your opinion on this art form. You said once that some people considered it grafitti, and I wondered who those people might be. I have talked to many people about it since then, and have come across only two people who object to it, you and one other. The other persons objection was that it conveyed some sort of non-christian spiritual message. It may for some rock stackers (and there are many) but not for me. It is my love and appreciation of the beauty of nature itself, and particularly of rocks, that inspires this art. People pass by rocks all the time, but do they notice nature's beauty in them? Sometimes nature makes rock stacks, and these catch the human eye. That is my goal in stacking rocks, to catch the human eye so that the beauty of the rocks will be noticed. Of course, nature does a far better job of this than I ever could; just look at some of the stacks and formations done by nature along the trail from Bowen Ranch to the springs.

Well, I don't expect to change your opinion on this, DCR. If you feel that it diminishes nature's beauty, while I feel that it just makes that beauty more noticable, then that is where we disagree. I am glad to see that in this rock-stacking criticism you have not hidden behind "some people," but admitted that the objection is your own. Feel free to unstack them if you like. Others will be stacked in their places by myself and other rock stackers.

I completely fail to see how eliminating rock stacks will lessen the negative impact on the springs, but I do appreciate your input."

And this was my reply:

Author: DCR
Date: 07-21-03 13:29

"sycamore, I only brought it up because you asked for ways to improve DCHS. It's a greater nuisance to me than the litter. I would never pretend I like the rock stacking ... last time I was there I was swimming in the creek and looked over towards the rock crossing upstream and noticed all the rocks stacked. To say the least, it was not an enjoyable thing to witness."

My original response was to Az Mike's post - not yours. It was his phrasing that I replied to.


PLEASE, ADD THIS TO THE AGENDA!

Is there any wonder why I don't want to join the DCV? I prefer to stay unassociated at this time.