Bruce, Hmmmm, thats quite a salvo of questions, I counted 28, and I thought my post were long :-) I'm still trying digest all that you have said :-) My knowledge of Mike Castro has been the mostly breif conversations we have had at his gate while I was accessing through the Bowen Ranch and a couple of more lengthy conversation we had just after last Thanksgiving. He has never done anything aggressive towards me. I did notice he was pretty agitated when he talked to me on the Moss Mill road back when it was unclear because of BLM signs as to whether it was a legitimate access or not but I never felt threatened by him. The rest of the information I have to deal with comes from information I've seen at Gail's site, things written on this Forum and stories I've heard at the springs. I thinks its important to be careful when considering the last three sources of information. I try to be fair as possible in considering the arguments of all sides of these discussions we are having. Its my objective and feeling that the only way things might settle down in regards to these contentious issues is for all of us to keep talking and sharing our thoughts to help us define more clearly where all this ill will comes from and what veiws are valid or hold merit. Its clear that the majority of the people that post here all care a lot for DCHS. None of us want to see that special place abused. OZ is being affected by negative elements and could use the cooperative help of those who love it as we do. Hopefully in future talks we can define here things to help that are sensible and goals that could be reasonably attained. Of course since the Forestry Dept is the agency given the authority by the public to oversee the area specifically around the springs then actions we might wish to take to help should be ones that see the aproval of that agency also. As paul suggested we, on our own can proceed with simpler things like trash removal and writting various officials to try and affect positively the policies that will in the future affect our access to DCHS. Concerning the Castro/ Katrina storybook romance as Paul calls it. It is my hope that all sides will " try " to treat eachother fairly and lawfully. I know there is alot of ill will on both sides. I'm sure for some this will never go away. Is it possible for the rest to bury the hatchet , turn over a new leaf and make a fresh start with mutual cooperation as a goal and the protection of Deep Creek Hotsprings as our objective. That is something I hope for.