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July 16, 2007 09:17PM
Hold on, mojavegreen. Are you saying that there are no wingnuts involved in the environmental movement or among the private property owners who are attempting to end OHV use?

I'm curious just what you consider environmental extremism?

I honestly believe OHV users are once again being jacked here. It's happened dozens of times, and we have just about 5% of public lands in California available to us for legal OHV use. How little would you expect us to put up with, when 17% of California homes house at least one OHV? We've been beaten over the head for 35 years by environmental groups. They have lied to an ignorant public, used the ESA as a political tool, planted evidence of endangered species in order to chase out all other groups but themselves, falsified testimony in open court, and used the power of the courts to dictate public policy to federal agencies when they can't get elected officials to carry their water. What you are seeing is 35 years of being pushed around now coming out in the form of a public backlash against the abuses. I don't in any way condone illegal riding or bothering homeowners, but it sort of pales in comparison to what has been done to us over the last few decades by some of the same people who helped get 3973 passed. The frustration you feel is the frustration we have felt for 35 years. Let's put this in perspective.

Sometimes, governments give in to special interest groups. Sometimes, individuals who are sucked in to the hype and rhetoric surrounding a particular legislation are lied to by those who are leading the charge. It's easy to slip into a mob mentality. Incredibly destructive people have been elected to political office by citizens who actually had a choice. Sometimes, ordinances crafted by a committee end up with something to violate everyone's better judgement. The favorite restrictions of a few extremists end up in the mix because bureaucrats figure if everyone claims to be equally pissed off, it must be ok. Some hate that it goes too far. Some hate that it doesn't go far enough. Some simply hate the guy next door with the loud buggy 10 years ago. Some just hate the fact that they were all alone 10 years ago, and now they have to put up with people every day.

If you are trying to tell me that there are no people who simply want to use restrictions against OHV use as a tool to end all OHV use, then you're not dealing with reality.

I'd be upset if someone was using my private property in a way that was against my wishes. But I wouldn't seek a county ordinance that goes well beyond trespassing. I'd post my property and insist that trespassing laws be enforced just as they were in Paul's case. I'd visit the trespassers while they are on my property, and if they attacked me, they'd be seeing the business end of a 45 auto until the Sheriff arrived. And I'd be insistent that Code Enforcement be given the authority to enforce all trespassing, noise, and dust abatement laws, especially if the Sheriff was too busy to be bothered.

I most cerainly would have demanded answers as to why existing laws weren't being enforced. And I would not have allowed Dave to become your defacto spokesman. He is not helping your cause. He's one good reason there is such a backlash against this ordinance right now. If he'd simply kept his trap shut, you'd see about 5 OHVers at the review meeting of BoS on 3973. As it is, you'll likely see 250! He's the best thing that happened to our movement.

As I've said before, the people who see value in 3973 are the people whose ox is not being gored. Turn the tables and see what happens.
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted

Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1792July 09, 2007 10:33AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1089July 09, 2007 10:50AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1134July 09, 2007 12:15PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1123July 09, 2007 04:27PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1250July 09, 2007 05:08PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Wizard 1129July 09, 2007 10:19PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1174July 10, 2007 08:34AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1166July 10, 2007 10:51AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1138July 10, 2007 03:19PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1188July 10, 2007 05:33PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1730July 11, 2007 04:47PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 934July 12, 2007 09:47AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1193July 13, 2007 09:06AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1108July 13, 2007 12:29PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1106July 13, 2007 05:43PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1081July 13, 2007 06:42PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1155July 10, 2007 07:14PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Paul P. 1726July 11, 2007 12:26PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1134July 11, 2007 02:32PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1244July 11, 2007 02:48PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1123July 11, 2007 03:55PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1148July 11, 2007 04:33PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1208July 12, 2007 10:28AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1154July 12, 2007 06:32PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1201July 13, 2007 09:52AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1105July 12, 2007 10:37PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1271July 12, 2007 11:00PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1203July 13, 2007 11:34AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1080July 13, 2007 12:30PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1090July 13, 2007 09:22AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1205July 13, 2007 11:50AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Paul P. 1203July 13, 2007 12:09PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1167July 13, 2007 12:42PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1198July 13, 2007 12:44PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1083July 13, 2007 01:05PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1044July 13, 2007 01:36PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1041July 13, 2007 06:16PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1260July 13, 2007 10:49PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1222July 13, 2007 01:16PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1148July 13, 2007 12:44PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1686July 13, 2007 01:09PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1180July 13, 2007 02:30PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1144July 13, 2007 06:24PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1130July 13, 2007 10:52PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1133July 13, 2007 11:33PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1077July 14, 2007 11:37AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1220July 13, 2007 09:54PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1061July 13, 2007 11:00PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1158July 13, 2007 02:42PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1710July 13, 2007 06:27PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1228July 13, 2007 07:36PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1127July 13, 2007 11:05PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1184July 13, 2007 11:13PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1095July 13, 2007 11:29PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1637July 14, 2007 10:01AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1146July 14, 2007 09:21PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1215July 15, 2007 03:30PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1168July 15, 2007 06:07PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1135July 15, 2007 06:16PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1122July 15, 2007 06:28PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1455July 15, 2007 07:08PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1146July 16, 2007 10:31AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1238July 15, 2007 07:32PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1091July 15, 2007 08:23PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1114July 15, 2007 09:40PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1133July 16, 2007 10:21PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1117July 17, 2007 08:06AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1219July 17, 2007 10:12AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1177July 15, 2007 10:21PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1143July 16, 2007 09:18PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1162July 16, 2007 10:41PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1104July 17, 2007 08:08AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1088July 17, 2007 12:18PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1125July 18, 2007 10:06AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1097July 18, 2007 10:45AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1154July 18, 2007 07:37AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1151July 15, 2007 10:49PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1232July 16, 2007 09:19PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1229July 15, 2007 11:33PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1236July 16, 2007 08:21AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1089July 16, 2007 08:07AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

romyluna65 1090July 17, 2007 08:59AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1216July 17, 2007 12:05PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1190July 17, 2007 11:15PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1133July 16, 2007 11:43AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1150July 16, 2007 12:11PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1147July 16, 2007 07:16PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1065July 16, 2007 09:11PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1162July 16, 2007 09:20PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1676July 16, 2007 10:09PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1057July 16, 2007 10:59PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1144July 17, 2007 08:22AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1097July 17, 2007 10:20AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1356July 17, 2007 02:47PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1115July 17, 2007 08:38PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1326July 18, 2007 02:28AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1305July 18, 2007 08:31AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1314July 17, 2007 07:40AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1160July 17, 2007 08:15AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1047July 17, 2007 12:09PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1086July 17, 2007 08:45PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Paul P. 1232July 17, 2007 09:29AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Paul P. 1323July 17, 2007 01:35PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1118July 17, 2007 01:39PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1297July 17, 2007 08:51PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1173July 17, 2007 03:32PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1129July 17, 2007 09:06PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1047July 17, 2007 10:55PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1127July 18, 2007 08:37AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1068July 18, 2007 10:24AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1074July 18, 2007 10:58AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1181July 18, 2007 08:15AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

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Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1031July 18, 2007 03:37PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1237July 18, 2007 04:01PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1141July 18, 2007 05:37PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1135July 18, 2007 02:02PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Big Ed 1184July 18, 2007 02:25PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1226July 18, 2007 04:36PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Paul P. 971July 18, 2007 04:58PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Paul P. 1214July 18, 2007 05:49PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1110July 18, 2007 06:04PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Rick 1793July 18, 2007 10:32PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1203July 18, 2007 06:00PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

Allen 1238July 18, 2007 06:13PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

LaughingBear 1257July 18, 2007 06:38PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1151July 12, 2007 10:58PM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

mojavegreen 1223July 13, 2007 10:12AM

Re: Improving Off-road Compliance

OMG 1081July 13, 2007 12:09PM



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